Split Games?

ANON · **Joined:** Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:59 pm **Posts:** 2292

WB TANAKA wrote:

Thank you for the very kind invitation. Perhaps I could find a way to drop by on a non-tournament Tuesday this summer, if that would be acceptable.

Absolutely! Please just let me know when, as summer attendance can be spottier than usual and I'm sure a number of my teamies would make a point to be there if they knew we'd have a visitor.

Quote:

Streetsboro looks to be a beautiful town, roughly twice the size of Farmville. But you're part of the Akron MSA, with a population of 703,200 in just two counties. If you look at your champoinship-caliber team, which I believe to be descended from the old Damon's Stow team, you have players from Twinsburg, Aurora, Northfield, Oxford, Brookpark, and Akron all coming together with Streetsboro in one powerhouse team. The two counties next to Farmville have a combined population of 33,400. Farmville, population 6,845, is the biggest city or town between Lynchburg and suburban Richmond, and it's roughly fifty miles from either. Contrasted to Farmville, the Akron MSA really is a "fairly large city."

I guess everything is relative, and yes, we certainly do have more people to draw from than does the Farmville area. But what relative percentage of BT locations are located in such areas? I really don't know the answer to this--maybe someone else here has a good idea. If I had to guess, though, I'd probably guess that the average playership of BT comes from areas that are larger than Farmville, so I'm not sure that it is the best yardstick to use for this purpose.

As for us, you are right that we are the team formerly located at Damon's Stow and Damon's Twinsburg. Most of us reside in Summit County (and northern Summit County, at that), although we have a couple of regular to semi-regular players from Cuyahoga and three (I believe) from Portage (this is out of a regular attendance of about 20 people any given Tuesday). But even taking the entire Akron MSA into consideration, it ranks as the only the fifth largest in Ohio (and not even in the top fifty nationwide). As far as "fairly large cities" (as you put it) go, I think Akron (population 199,000 in 2010) has to be on the low end of the spectrum at best--if it is on the spectrum at all by most people's definition. But again, it is all relative.

Quote:

But Anon, your kindness in inviting me to drop by parallels the kindness you always showed in our previous correspondence. I'll try to see you this summer.

That would be terrific--I very much look forward to it.

-BO- · **Joined:** Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm **Posts:** 2304

Again, it appears that there is currently no way to comment on the BT blog.

Will there be any official response from BT on either the blog or facebook by day's end?

BO

Tolle · **Joined:** Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:15 pm **Posts:** 607

WB TANAKA wrote:

I have my limits. For me it was Lunchtime Trivia in the Mountain Time Zone.

(For those of you who've ever played LT there, you know what I mean.)

Seriously, a game is fun if victory is, at least, within reach. Want a good example? I liked BrainBusters. I hated Showdown; we were regularly about 100th in the nation, but never really within reach of the leaders. In BrainBusters we often broke top twenty as a site, against substantially the same group about to play Showdown, probably because the nature of the game was better for a smaller team. We never won. One doesn't have to win frequently to enjoy a game. One must be within reach of winning, though, or it tends to be less fun.

I hear you: you don't give a damn about the challenges I face enjoying Buzztime in my small town.

I think that 25% of the nation lives in rural sites, and I know that a surprising number of Buzztime locations are rural. They're not leading sites; the only one in the top 200 is Farmville. They do pay into the network; they might be a growth opportunity.

You probably did better in Brainbusters because there are less questions and on a good night (when a guess or two hits) you'd be right up there, but in a longer game the law of averages was just too high. If the timing of the changes works better for you, you have every right to be happy about it, but I don't think being excited about diluted competition is a good reason. Btw... I checked out your stats and you can more than handle your own as it now stands.

You may be right on the rural hatred. lol

I think you'd probably be a little surprised on how few players are actually on some of these "mega city" teams. Some are no more than 1 or 2 people (MEGUMI for example).

whales · **Joined:** Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:57 pm **Posts:** 267

You can still comment on their other blog entries. Indeed, the newest entry, about Turdalicious, is still at "(0) Comments" - virgin territory.

Lewser, can you get me into Learned League? I learned it and played it at TCONA in Vegas in July. I'll need a new trivia hobby after Final Showdown on February 21, 2012.

WB TANAKA · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:13 pm **Posts:** 288

-BO- wrote:

Regardless of your thoughts towards this one topic, just admit two things if you would. 1, player count has dropped significantly the last few years. 2, the changes made during that time have favored the casual player.

BO

Have you looked at the actual pattern of player loss over the past several years?

Let me offer two reasons:

1) 08/08/08

2) The Great Recession

Want me to do a regression analysis to prove my point, or do you want to take another quick look at Don Denton's archives to see when all the players left?

pengwn · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:08 pm

-BO- wrote:

Again, it appears that there is currently no way to comment on the BT blog.

Will there be any official response from BT on either the blog or facebook by day's end?

BO

My fault. Their blog couldn't handle the two Pipe characters (|) in the facepalm. I don't know what everyone else sees, but when I click the comment button, it picks up the text characters that were between the two Pipes. What I see is

Comments (,./.....\,__..........
,_..........}.>-._...................................)

The worst part is it cuts off anyone else from registering or continuing their complaints, and I can't delete or edit my post

If only I could break whatever servers will be rolling out these changes with equal efficiency. Or make our point by Occupying their blog with the facepalm :twisted:

-BO- · **Joined:** Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm **Posts:** 2304

WB TANAKA wrote:

Have you looked at the actual pattern of player loss over the past several years?

Let me offer two reasons:

1) 08/08/08

2) The Great Recession

Want me to do a regression analysis to prove my point, or do you want to take another quick look at Don Denton's archives to see when all the players left?

Yes, many players left after the changes of 08/08/08. These changes were geared directly to the casual player as 95%+ of those commenting on BT's site stated they were against the change.

Thank you for proving my point.

BO

WB TANAKA · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:13 pm **Posts:** 288

-BO- wrote:

WB TANAKA wrote:

Have you looked at the actual pattern of player loss over the past several years?

Let me offer two reasons:

1) 08/08/08

2) The Great Recession

Want me to do a regression analysis to prove my point, or do you want to take another quick look at Don Denton's archives to see when all the players left?

Yes, many players left after the changes of 08/08/08. These changes were geared directly to the casual player as 95%+ of those commenting on BT's site stated they were against the change.

Thank you for proving my point.

BO

You're welcome!

Now could you erase the Great Recession for all of us the way you've done here, so that Buzztime and the rest of us can get back to our prosperous lives?

WB TANAKA · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:13 pm **Posts:** 288

Tolle wrote:

WB TANAKA wrote:

I have my limits. For me it was Lunchtime Trivia in the Mountain Time Zone.

(For those of you who've ever played LT there, you know what I mean.)

Seriously, a game is fun if victory is, at least, within reach. Want a good example? I liked BrainBusters. I hated Showdown; we were regularly about 100th in the nation, but never really within reach of the leaders. In BrainBusters we often broke top twenty as a site, against substantially the same group about to play Showdown, probably because the nature of the game was better for a smaller team. We never won. One doesn't have to win frequently to enjoy a game. One must be within reach of winning, though, or it tends to be less fun.

I hear you: you don't give a damn about the challenges I face enjoying Buzztime in my small town.

I think that 25% of the nation lives in rural sites, and I know that a surprising number of Buzztime locations are rural. They're not leading sites; the only one in the top 200 is Farmville. They do pay into the network; they might be a growth opportunity.

You probably did better in Brainbusters because there are less questions and on a good night (when a guess or two hits) you'd be right up there, but in a longer game the law of averages was just too high. If the timing of the changes works better for you, you have every right to be happy about it, but I don't think being excited about diluted competition is a good reason. Btw... I checked out your stats and you can more than handle your own as it now stands.

You may be right on the rural hatred. lol

I think you'd probably be a little surprised on how few players are actually on some of these "mega city" teams. Some are no more than 1 or 2 people (MEGUMI for example).

On that "higher deviation" thing, I'd agree, but our worst scores at BrainBusters were better than our best at Showdown. :oops:

On rural hatred, well, it's not a good decade to be living in flyover country.

Regarding how many are on which teams, I think that I've researched these issues more than you might suspect. And yes, MEGUMI plays with meguma, megume, megumo, and megumu, but I was referring to mortals.

-BO- · **Joined:** Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm **Posts:** 2304

WB TANAKA wrote:

Now could you erase the Great Recession for all of us the way you've done here, so that Buzztime and the rest of us can get back to our prosperous lives?

Certainly that has some impact, unfortunately it's impossible to quantify. But it does exist.

However, if long time players were in charge of the network, players wouldn't care about such things. They'd be chomping at the bit each and every day to play.

BO

lewser · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:25 pm **Posts:** 1028

whales wrote:

You can still comment on their other blog entries. Indeed, the newest entry, about Turdalicious, is still at "(0) Comments" - virgin territory.

Lewser, can you get me into Learned League? I learned it and played it at TCONA in Vegas in July. I'll need a new trivia hobby after Final Showdown on February 21, 2012.

What team did you play on? I also played at TCONA we finished 3rd (Honey Badgers AKA "P"), we have some pictures on Facebook. I haven't received my invite yet, but someone referred me recently. So, after I get going a little bit I might be able to swing the invite. I just don't know enough about the process yet.

spotes · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:27 pm **Posts:** 1558

The Great Trivia 10Q Game Schism dates from 8-4-08 people.
Those who do not know history are doomed to have Buzztime repeat it.

Jim · **Joined:** Sun May 08, 2011 9:39 am **Posts:** 294

-BO- wrote:

Yes, many players left after the changes of 08/08/08. These changes were geared directly to the casual player as 95%+ of those commenting on BT's site stated they were against the change.

BO

I was travelling around the country a lot at that time and talked to a lot of "casual players" who quit. It wasn't the 10 question game, the predictable answer patterns or the constant repeats that made them quit; it was that Buzztime omitted local player rankings between questions and between games along with bar rankings. A lot of casual players may not care about national rankings, but they do care about the local competition.

-BO- · **Joined:** Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm **Posts:** 2304

Jim wrote:

I was travelling around the country a lot at that time and talked to a lot of "casual players" who quit. It wasn't the 10 question game, the predictable answer patterns or the constant repeats that made them quit; it was that Buzztime omitted local player rankings between questions and between games along with bar rankings. A lot of casual players may not care about national rankings, but they do care about the local competition.

Excellent point.

Rhino · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:40 pm **Posts:** 633

Somewhat strangely the barowner where I play was talking about new Smartest Bar and chain competitions later this year.

Surely even the BT brass aren't stupid enough to offer prizes for a competition where a simple phone call would guarantee a slew of perfect western scores.....

liljol · **Joined:** Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:41 pm **Posts:** 2497

-BO- wrote:

Jim wrote:

I was travelling around the country a lot at that time and talked to a lot of "casual players" who quit. It wasn't the 10 question game, the predictable answer patterns or the constant repeats that made them quit; it was that Buzztime omitted local player rankings between questions and between games along with bar rankings. A lot of casual players may not care about national rankings, but they do care about the local competition.

Excellent point.

Indeed, and those local player rankings between questions included the points scored for each player for the previous question. There are few things that beat ragging on someone who only scored 999 points when everyone else scored 1000. :lol:

From another angle, there are few things more satisfying to an otherwise less than top level player when they see that they scored more points on a question than anyone else there. They might have sucked ass on every other question of that game, but they got their few seconds of glory, and those few seconds just might make them consider playing more. However (and, no thanks to BT trivia games), those screens only appear between questions in Countdown type games and/or rounds of premium games.

-BO- · **Joined:** Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm **Posts:** 2304

liljol wrote:

-BO- wrote:

Jim wrote:

I was travelling around the country a lot at that time and talked to a lot of "casual players" who quit. It wasn't the 10 question game, the predictable answer patterns or the constant repeats that made them quit; it was that Buzztime omitted local player rankings between questions and between games along with bar rankings. A lot of casual players may not care about national rankings, but they do care about the local competition.

Excellent point.

Indeed, and those local player rankings between questions included the points scored for each player for the previous question. There are few things that beat ragging on someone who only scored 999 points when everyone else scored 1000. :lol:

From another angle, there are few things more satisfying to an otherwise less than top level player when they see that they scored more points on a question than anyone else there. They might have sucked ass on every other question of that game, but they got their few seconds of glory, and those few seconds just might make them consider playing more. However (and, no thanks to BT trivia games), those screens only appear between questions in Countdown type games and/or rounds of premium games.

And not even every question in those games. Not on Q's 3, 7, and 11 in 15 Q games, don't know the exact sequence of premium games. Why was it they changed the screen on those Q's in CD?

Additionally, you think anybody at BT is aware of this happening during various games?

BO

MitchWolf · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:13 am

-BO- wrote:

Jim wrote:

I was travelling around the country a lot at that time and talked to a lot of "casual players" who quit. It wasn't the 10 question game, the predictable answer patterns or the constant repeats that made them quit; it was that Buzztime omitted local player rankings between questions and between games along with bar rankings. A lot of casual players may not care about national rankings, but they do care about the local competition.

Excellent point.

I agree whole hardy on that accesment

IMHERE · **Joined:** Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:45 pm **Posts:** 153

http://www.buzztime.com/blog-buzztime/9 ... west-.html I looked at the BT blog and up at the top it said it was written by
ttjjcs4ever http://www.buzztime.com/players/bt_prof ... &tn=trivia
Last Play Date January 17th, 2011
Who ever that is. They have 23,700 PP+ so they play quite a bit and know all about the games. :roll:

IMHERE · **Joined:** Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:45 pm **Posts:** 153

Thought with Scar site down this morning it went under faster than BT will with the new EAST WEST setup. :lol:

Dante · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:19 am

WB Tanaka,

I agree with most of your assessment here. In fact, in the past you would likely have read me arguing more vociferously than you have: the "old guard" were in fact destroying NTN, because the setting was such that a newer player would never want to compete. I made numerous suggestions in the past on what they should do (including the Cards, under the reasoning of adding "achievements" as they have worked so well under other settings for other companies, though I know that has been attributed to other people now).

The important distinction here, as I had said on Facbeook, is Buzztime missed the boat entirely on what they needed to do, and over recent months have seemed to be actively destroying their company. They've made slow, pretty evenly timed steps on destroying their community. The idea of running off the old guard is fine if it's done concurrently with attracting new users, from a business perspective. The idea of running off everyone in order to then get new users leaves the business with, in fact, no users.

I've had a feeling for a while that Buzztime was trying to get rid of the physical side of their business, or at least to morph that into purely "Live Trivia" and "Poker." And, if so, they've done it in a way that would keep them from necessarily being sued by their shareholders. I also watched what they've done with their special stock offering to their current shareholders. I do not believe Ms. Berger is that dumb. Nor do I believe she didn't know the rules. I think they are trying to devalue their stock as far as possible so they can take it back private and make it an internet only business.

I am not willing to defend them, because they've step over the bounds of "maybe just being incompetent" to egregiously trying to take down a company.

Dante · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:20 am

IMHERE wrote:

Thought with Scar site down this morning it went under faster than BT will with the new EAST WEST setup. :lol:

Not sure why that happened, though I assume it's from the increase in users. Harry, if you see that again, you have my phone # -- just text me and I'll try to get it fixed.

Dante · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:21 am

MitchWolf wrote:

-BO- wrote:

Jim wrote:

I was travelling around the country a lot at that time and talked to a lot of "casual players" who quit. It wasn't the 10 question game, the predictable answer patterns or the constant repeats that made them quit; it was that Buzztime omitted local player rankings between questions and between games along with bar rankings. A lot of casual players may not care about national rankings, but they do care about the local competition.

Excellent point.

I agree whole hardy on that accesment

I agree 100%. When I played solo, while I cared slightly about trying to beat "the big boys" -- I cared more about the local competition in my own bar (which was a solo bar). A lot of new players don't even seem to notice that they are competing against other people.

I still think it would be a good idea to have a "Amateur" versus "Pro" players list, though I know that people would abuse it, as they do in any other setting that has it.

Gogetem · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:31 am **Posts:** 791

I wonder if BT has considered what will happen to their site count if these changes are implemented. I for one, know of 2 local sites (one long-term) that will give up their boxes if participation drops. Our Tuesday night site, doesn't like dealing with BT anyway because of non-returned calls and promises etc. I could go on but won't. My feeling is that if some sites get rid of BT, they won't be returning to the fold.

We all know if BWW drops their contract, goodbye BT.

WB TANAKA · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:13 pm **Posts:** 288

Dante wrote:

WB Tanaka,

I agree with most of your assessment here. In fact, in the past you would likely have read me arguing more vociferously than you have: the "old guard" were in fact destroying NTN, because the setting was such that a newer player would never want to compete. I made numerous suggestions in the past on what they should do (including the Cards, under the reasoning of adding "achievements" as they have worked so well under other settings for other companies, though I know that has been attributed to other people now).

The important distinction here, as I had said on Facbeook, is Buzztime missed the boat entirely on what they needed to do, and over recent months have seemed to be actively destroying their company. They've made slow, pretty evenly timed steps on destroying their community. The idea of running off the old guard is fine if it's done concurrently with attracting new users, from a business perspective. The idea of running off everyone in order to then get new users leaves the business with, in fact, no users.

I've had a feeling for a while that Buzztime was trying to get rid of the physical side of their business, or at least to morph that into purely "Live Trivia" and "Poker." And, if so, they've done it in a way that would keep them from necessarily being sued by their shareholders. I also watched what they've done with their special stock offering to their current shareholders. I do not believe Ms. Berger is that dumb. Nor do I believe she didn't know the rules. I think they are trying to devalue their stock as far as possible so they can take it back private and make it an internet only business.

I am not willing to defend them, because they've step over the bounds of "maybe just being incompetent" to egregiously trying to take down a company.

Interesting perspective. Thanks.

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