New Scaratings

I certainly concur, and I strongly suspect that BWW was "in the loop" on this, if not driving it.

Which is why we should all be calling, e-mailing, and/or dropping by to see the manager/owners of every location we play and tell THEM to tell BT that this change will not bring them any new players but will cost them the old ones, which will likely then make the BT system unprofitable to maintain.

Brooke/AARDVK/KRIEM/LGLPRO

Buzztimetime really does need to hire a public relations firm to announce changes in the future and fire the people currently doing the job. Even if the changes are positive the way they handle it now with hints and teases creates lots of suspicion, anxiety and ill-will that is difficult to overcome especially based on past changes.

While the focus here is on the time zone split, the rumor persists that players plus points are going away. It takes over 16,000,000 to be in the top 1000 now and I don't think anybody with that much emotional investment worthless as it may be would be happy about it just disappearing. The same for people at the 5 and 10 million levels too. Break the emotional tie and how many will stay?

Maybe the goal is to lower the value to bring it private for pennies and then relaunch as an internet gaming company with a new IPO.

I am at the point now of not wanting to play as a player because of things like this. They have made the game a joke and forget that the customer is actually two-tiered. The bar/restaurant as the primary and us as players. If enough of us leave, then the restaurants can't pay for the system.

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Tiffany

Occassional Haunt - Jax Tavern, Forest Park, OH

And the answer is......4?? 42....the answer to life, the universe and everything

I really don't think the goal for BT is to take the company strictly online. Yes they are trying to grow the online side as they should.

One of the main items mentioned in the new rights offering to shareholders call was the development of new playmakers. This was a serious item. BT is going to spend a lot of money on playmakers among other things. I doubt they would do that if they were trying to drop the bars. This split is just someone's bad idea to try without a lot thought put into it.

Trying this split games deal for the 2nd time is a huge mistake probably not realizing it was tried back in the early 2000s.
If I recall, the west time zones got the premium games after the prime game of the night while the east had them before as we have now. I don't remember what nights were included on this, I was thinking Tues, Wed, Thur maybe more/less? It lasted about 6 months or so and was dropped and we went back to national rankings for all the premiums.

I really don't think there is anyone at all at BT right now that was working there the 1st time this was tried.

So, have your bar managers call BT as many times as possible to ask about keeping the national rankings for premium games and we should be calling as players too. BT does log the calls. Call C.S. at 1 800 745 4686

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BUD - Stained Glass Pub Silver Spring MD
OC BUD - Grotto Pizza DE near Ocean City MD

LET'S GO ....Orioles and the 9 and 5!!

I don't know. Everyone seems to think we can make Carlsbad see the light.

They haven't listened to reason before. They've made mistakes and paid consequences and they'll keep making the same ones. They don't listen to players. Us old folks aren't the demographic they want anyway. I doubt they pay any more attention to their bar clients. They know everything so why should they listen to anyone else?

Market research is for losers. If a lot of their bars cancel, they'll get new ones. Their customer turnover is amazing, isn't it? They lose hundreds of customer every year but they keep their total active base pretty constant. Who needs growth, anyway?

We'll bitch and moan and most of us will keep on playing because what else are we going to do? Play the Megatouch machines? Golden Tee? Darts?

Gimme a break.

I hate this, but BT is in trouble and they know it (though they will never admit it publicly until they pull the plug) and has to try SOMETHING. Player participation is WAY down, and they feel they need to do something to try and attract new players to the bars.

Like it was said above, it's very likely BT's biggest customer, BWW (who mostly wasn't involved the last time BT tried splitting games) is in on it. Kinda makes sense that they would be, since most (well, nearly all) of those that play at BWW's are very casual/occasional players who probably do complain to staff that "The veteran players always clobber us... Why should we bother playing?".

The way I see it, BT agrees with BWW and sees us heavy players as hurting their product because we're too good and too experienced... Therefore this desperate move. BT probably sees our volume of complaints and assumes that they're getting us to "move out of the way" for the "new guard" they're certain exists (but doesn't). Interesting gamble, I suppose... I suppose there's a tiny possibility that this could work, VERY tiny... It seems the few younger-generation people that really like to play trivia games either do it online at home or at the zillions of live-host trivia events that have sprung up in the last few years.

It's like in a prizefight where a guy is practically out on his feet and knows that if he doesn't throw punches, the ref's gonna stop the fight... So he tries to keep the arms moving...

However, it's much more likely that BT's "stay in the fight" punches will prove too feeble and the fight will soon be over.

To quote Howard Cosell: DOWN GOES BUZZTIME! DOWN GOES BUZZTIME!

I'm sure some will, just even less often than before, at least in West Coast bars... The drastic schedule change is worse for many of us than the idea of split networks (except for the fact that cheating by the West will be VERY easy and so common that any time a Western team scores well in a premium game, it'll be assumed that they cheated by almost everyone).

In my case, Tuesday is currently "appointment Buzztime", but moving the premium game back 2 hours will end that. Here in the West, people play trivia right after work, then go home after Happy Hour ends at 7 or so. Playmakers sit untouched in the chargers after that at most locations in the West. I doubt that this schedule change will force many of us to completely disrupt the schedules we have kept for many years, so most will just either play the CD/BT schedule for a bit, then go home... Or just go home without stopping at all. Managers will notice this, and choose not to renew when that time comes.

Several members of the Old Barn team slready expressed just this... Even for those of us who DO decide to be out and playing trivia, some of us are in a live-host trivia league and rush over to another restaurant to play in THAT right after Showdown is over. Now, we have to choose one or the other. With the split network, the live-host games will look even better in comparison.

The one good side of this... I won't have to think "do I like the premium games for this night or not?" when traffic sucks and I consider stopping to play instead of battling the commute...

Won't have a lot of time to do that, either... Vultures are circling over Carlsbad as we speak.

Funny thing... I've been playing NTN/BT since '94, and even then experienced players were predicting a quick demise for NTN... Somehow, they've kept the boat afloat this long... Don't think so this time... It'll take a bit for the non-renewal effect to take place, but... My guess is sometime in 2013, BT will be done.

Read this entire thread, this is my first post on the subject. I, too, think this will kill the elite teams as we currently know them. I'm sick about that. Tuesday night trivia, competing against the best bars, getting real-time feedback and your rank, are all part of the appeal. Also part of the appeal is getting a good game against hard questions. IMHO, over the last 12 months, Showdown has been a pretty damn good product and a fun game. I've enjoyed it immensely.

Back in the Spring, BT polled players after the Showdown rounds regarding difficulty. We all voted that we wanted a harder game. Lo-and-behold, the game did get harder starting in the Fall. Our team (Coaches) posted stunningly consistent results after this, nearly always mid-40s for many months on end. In my book, that's a well-written game with a good level of difficulty.

Anyway, back to split games. #1 priority for me is that BT stays in business. Period. No BT, no trivia fun. While I disagree that moving to split games will help their solvency, my opinion is non-expert and uninformed by data that BT certainly has access to. Of course I'd like to keep Showdown, and Six, and maybe a few others as single-event contests. Far more important, I'd like to see BT continue! For all the crap out there, BT is a fantastic, fun diversion for me and my friends. We do play regularly, and not just premium games. Twice a month, we do Friday-afternoon get togethers, and they're a major part of my social life. I'm genuinely thankful for BT and what they provide. The work that goes into what they do every week is considerable and NOT free. So I do see the investment they need to make.

So, having said that, I'll do my very best to give BT the benefit of the doubt. If this is what it takes to keep BT solvent, then so be it. Even if just the *act* of mixing things up gives confidence to investors to keep this going when they otherwise might fold, then hell, I'm all for it.

And in the spirit of making lemonade, I do think the elite teams (Showdown/Six) can adapt. I propose a VERY simple system for this. We simply form the Trivia Honor League (THL). We'll track stats among ourselves. A simple set of requirements to participate in the league would include an honor pledge to not use computers or cheat in all the other myriad ways that split games will allow. Simple. Not unlike the Sandbaggers Tourney and Macarthy Cup rules. By my estimate, we have between 100-150 bars that play Showdown as teams on a regular basis. I'd bet most of these (minus the current known Borgs) would participate in the THL. Should be simple to work with Don Denton to get stats for those that participate, and we continue to track just like we do now.

To take this one step further, I would recommend we work *with* buzztime on an idea like this. For example, we could ask to have such teams officially tagged in the Buzztime database, and ideally, such stats easily extracted or even posted by BT themselves for "league" play. BT knows full-well the heat they're taking from the established teams and players with this change. I see an opportunity in this. Work with BT, as we both have a common, overriding goal: the continued success and availability of the service. Sounds like a cliche, but if we can get anything like a win/win out of this, then we should strive for that. You could even imagine BT helping to enforce the honor-code rule for those teams signed up for team play. I have a few suggestions for how to detect such cheats, and if BT partnered with us, there are most-certainly a number of means to ensure the integrity for team play.

So, there's a few positive suggestions for our circumstance. I'm not happy about the change. If we have to live with it, we can. And by God, if I as a player can help BT continue, I'm there with suggestions, comments, and whatever else they might need in addition to my regular patronage at BT bars.

SCOOTR aka JOE M
Coaches Crewe

I just love how buzztime is "proud to announce" they're splitting into BT East and BT West. But yet for the HOF, they say, "no we're not going to split that up, we'll just combine all the scores" Either split all the way in every facet...or stay in unison in every facet. I'm sure they don't want to split the HOF up into East and West, because (1) it'll be too much work for them [they can't even get all the speciality games in there right now], (2) it'll look bad when East completely dominates the West in total participation numbers and (3) it'll be too confusing to have a double set of numbers in the HOF...but this mix & match stuff is ridiculous.

And as far as the HOF combine goes, I'm wondering what buzztime is going to do after their "randomizing the answer choices" strategy fails. Are they going to go the QB1 route? "Well, that score looks suspicious so let's just remove that one." I can't wait until Mr B's puts up a perfect or near-perfect in Spotlight. "No, their score is too good, it must not be legit, let's pull it."

They won't have to worry about it, once the east coasters and maritime provinces don't have to play at such a damning hour Mr B's will rarely crack the top 10.

BO

You must play at this year's Triviapolooza unless it is canceled.

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"Truth Like Football. Gets kicked around much, before reaching goal." - Charlie Chan

" Don't look back, The bastards might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

Frank

This past Friday, the same person posted the following. (The italics are my own). The first comment was made on this thread; the second was on the February 2012 Topix thread.

"if this happens I will never step foot into a bar that has BT for the rest of my life.."

"Once the change happens ... nobody on the East/Central timezones can ever get a 'national' victory unless you go perfect. I will see to that."

Friday, this thread had so much overreacting ("I'll never play BT again!") and yesterday, the comments became more thought-provoking,

I have to agree with diablo2112's remarks the most. First and foremost is Buzztime's survival. In tough times like these, however, part of surviving would seem to be to reduce overhead costs, and I don't see how splitting into East and West will accomplish this.

The way I see this, if they are going to have East and West feeds, the only way they can do this without a risk of cheating would be to ask entirely different questions on the premium games. A question on the East version of Nth Degree or Showdown or Topix should never be asked on the West version of that game. Certainly not on the same night or week, and certainly not in any predictable manner. This means that Buzztime will have to write twice as many HoF game questions, which means probably five times as many HoF game question errors!

Given that there needs to be separate questions for the premium games, there also needs to be separate HoF lists, with separate "top 100s", "medals", etc.

As for Rackme32's comment, I have to think that Westerners are more flexible than what he is suggesting. If we on the East Coast can wait two hours after work until there is a game that is neither Countdown nor Buzztime Trivia, then West Coasters can certainly wait one hour. If those of us on EST can wait until 10:00pm until the premium games end, I see no reason why those on PST cannot at least wait until 9:00pm.

Currently, I work until 5:00pm. If I lived on the West Coast and had the same work schedule (adjusted for time zone, of course), I would not be able to play games like Glory Daze and Nth Degree, at least under the current Buzztime schedule. And if traffic were to be a bitch, as it usually would be in LA or Seattle, I might not even get to my favorite trivia bar in time to play Topix or the start of Showdown. WIth Buzztime's proposed change, that would at least alleviate these problems, maybe even eliminate them. However, the problem would persist for residents of Alaska and especially Hawaii, but at least their population is relatively small. But provided that this scheduling change can be done without cheating, this would still appear to be an improvement.

So, I am not going to change my avatar or even my handle over this matter, and I'm certainly not going to stop playing as a protest. I'm not doing these things because I've played NTN trivia for 12 years and have vested enough of my spare time into playing trivia as a result that I want their company to remain afloat. I am concerned about Buzztime's scheduling proposal and the effect on the integrity of their games, but I am prepared to wait and see what actually happens.

-- RWM

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"...It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED...."

HELLLOOOOO???????!!!! They were gonna do that anyway is what 99.44% of us is STEAMED about.

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Mitch (MTCHWF/WLFFLY)

Co-Home Bar: Buffalo Wild Wings Edwardsville, IL and Time Out in St Louis, MO

Well, Mitch, I wasn't "steamed" when I posted earlier this morning. If you're going to get "steamed", do it over someone else's post! I frankly don't even understand your comment, but if your response is going to be in huge fonts or in capital letters or with excessive exclamation marks, then I can do without clarification!

-- RWM

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"...It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED...."

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liljol, still residing in a humble lil abode in Buzztime's Backyard, San Diego County, in The Horribly Site-Poor Golden State, California...

<--805 NTN Buzztime sites visited as of 11/13/2018...

F CUBS!!!!! FBOSOX!!!!!

FPDRES!!!!! FCHGRS!!!!!

I know u are not mad about it....but if u see what everyone else is posting is very clear.

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Mitch (MTCHWF/WLFFLY)

Co-Home Bar: Buffalo Wild Wings Edwardsville, IL and Time Out in St Louis, MO

What I really wish is that BT would present the underlying problem to the player base (i.e.;, "How do we get more people playing"?)and ask for help in solving it rather than inflicting one of their crazy solutions on us. Even when player feedback is solicited, it's only to get us to choose among predetermined responses when something much more open-ended would produce things that BT might not have considered.

For example, here's one approach to improving the player counts: BT could provide more support to the locations in growing the number of players. I've often considered gathering stories from players/locations across the continent on what makes for a successful location, then putting that plus basic info on recognizing system problems, maintaining boxes, etc. into a manual for the locations. Tips could range from the very simple (make sure the system is appearing on at least one screen at all times and that your servers know what to do when someone asks for a box) to the complicated (promotions that have worked well for other locations). Naturally this is what BT itself could and should have done long ago instead of just installing the system and vanishing, usually leaving behind a location that will cancel its subscription in a month or so because no one is playing and the system is not covering its cost. I can't even start to count how many locations in Houston we never even got a chance to check out because the system was gone before we could get there, while the locations that do put some effort into getting and maintaining regular players are continuing to make money off it.

Brooke/AARDVK/KRIEM/LGLPRO

Most of the supporters make valid points for why it is possible that this change could end up being positive (although I disagree with them), but this is the one issue that is obviously a problem regardless of what your stance is. If there isn't something along the lines of diablo's suggest Trivia Honor League implemented, those of us in the west coast will have no way to possibly have any form of competition surrounding these games. Even if you are a solo player in the west, and only enjoy competing locally against other individuals, it is just as likely for one individual to find the answers and cheat as it is for an entire team.

I wish Buzztime would tell us what their "precautions" are for ousting cheaters. It will be very frustrating if our first good score is our last appearance in the national rankings because Buzztime assumes we are cheating and removes our scores.

Wonder of all wonders, as of today, the Saturday Topix & Speed Freaks games are finally back in the HOF

I'd like to know that too. But I'm sure their response would be "if we told you, someone would come up with a way to circumvent our 'non-cheating system.'"

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Malort. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

Hey, that was me who said that. If this all comes about, I will play the first week to prove a point and then never step foot into a Buzztime Bar (I also will not be running my handles, I will play as a guest so I won't get those tainted medals). I say many things when I am absolutely pissed at something, that is my charm. There is never any confusion on where I stand. As I posted on Facebook, this just invalidates any score any West Feed team. I know the guys at many of the elite places, and I know they wouldn't search for the answers. But, all it takes is a few to ruin it for everyone. It reminds me of a quote in a movie, I think it the the Peacemaker with Nicole Kidman, "I am not worried about the country that buys many nuclear weapons, I am worried about the person who buys only one."

This whole change just simply disgusts me (I thought I was pretty obvious ), this game has been a past time of mine for 18 years. But, if my scores mean absolutely nothing anymore, it will be hard to stop cold turkey, but I will tie myself down to a make it happen. Since BT no longer cares about it's product, I will follow the same route and not care as well.

This whole situation has taken the fight out of me (concerning BT trivia).

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Buzztime is a company full of dumbshits.

As the weekend winds down I'm wondering two things.

1, Will BT fix the blog to allow more comments? And if so, when?
2, Are several members who hide in the free for all forums even aware of this impending doom regarding BT?

BO

I'm a run of the mill player, playing in the middle of nowhereburg, banging away at a playmaker solo, and with an early EST bedtime 10 months of the year. I rarely play the premium games, unless visiting other sites. So, I hardly have much of a dog in this fight.

However, I am someone who has put some effort into BT, by hosting WVBTO I-IV, which where fun and...something else...I forget.

Anyway, BT is about COMPETITION, regardless of how casual you may play...others are out there wanting to do their best and beat however many other folks are playing at the time.

They want to win by using their own knowledge, taking answers from others, using computers, and out-right phone cheating. They play like this on both coasts.

Personally, solo and wet-ware teams are ok with me. Not too tolerant of borgs or cheats. But, I still want to compete against EVERYONE, regardless of time zones. Those that know me realize that by 9:00 eastern, I'm usually speaking BOTFLYese. Doubt if I will get a good score, but by the slimmest chance that I get lucky, I don't want the competition watered down for me to get a Top 100.

As WONK texted me, "Seems like an unforce error" on BT's part.

No, they have seen enough.
Hell no, are you kidding me.